How does a family endure the pain of a loved one disappearing without a trace? In this heart-wrenching episode of the Victim Podcast, I, Lamin Fadera, sit down with Kaddy Cham and Mariama Fatajo to share their deeply personal and emotionally charged stories of losing their fathers under the oppressive regime of former President Yahya Jammeh in The Gambia. Listen as Kaddy recalls the tragic disappearance of her father, Ndure Cham, in 2006, and Mariama recounts the devastating kidnapping of her father, Siaka Fatajo, in 2017. Their stories highlight not only the emotional toll and the relentless pursuit of justice but also the urgent need for greater awareness and governmental action to prevent such human rights violations.
Explore the bureaucratic hurdles and emotional burdens these families have faced in their desperate search for answers. Kaddy and Mariama reveal the frustrating challenges of dealing with unresponsive government bodies, and the small glimmer of hope offered by the formation of a missing person task force. Their testimonies are a poignant reminder of the personal bonds they shared with their fathers, the agony of discovering their fates, and the unyielding quest for justice and closure. Through their voices, we gain insight into the broader impact of enforced disappearances on families and communities, emphasizing the necessity of collective responsibility to ensure such atrocities never occur again.
Join us as we underscore the critical need for transitional justice, the implementation of the TRRC recommendations, and governmental accountability. Kaddy and Mariama reflect on the importance of memorializing their lost loved ones and the ongoing struggle for healing in the aftermath of such profound loss. This episode is a powerful call to action, urging listeners to remember, share, and advocate for justice, so that the painful legacy of enforced disappearances does not continue to haunt future generations. Thank you for tuning in, and remember to follow, share, like, and subscribe to the Victim Podcast on social media platforms.
How does a family endure the pain of a loved one disappearing without a trace? In this heart-wrenching episode of the Victim Podcast, I, Lamin Fadera, sit down with Kaddy Cham and Mariama Fatajo to share their deeply personal and emotionally charged stories of losing their fathers under the oppressive regime of former President Yahya Jammeh in The Gambia. Listen as Kaddy recalls the tragic disappearance of her father, Ndure Cham, in 2006, and Mariama recounts the devastating kidnapping of her father, Siaka Fatajo, in 2017. Their stories highlight not only the emotional toll and the relentless pursuit of justice but also the urgent need for greater awareness and governmental action to prevent such human rights violations.
Explore the bureaucratic hurdles and emotional burdens these families have faced in their desperate search for answers. Kaddy and Mariama reveal the frustrating challenges of dealing with unresponsive government bodies, and the small glimmer of hope offered by the formation of a missing person task force. Their testimonies are a poignant reminder of the personal bonds they shared with their fathers, the agony of discovering their fates, and the unyielding quest for justice and closure. Through their voices, we gain insight into the broader impact of enforced disappearances on families and communities, emphasizing the necessity of collective responsibility to ensure such atrocities never occur again.
Join us as we underscore the critical need for transitional justice, the implementation of the TRRC recommendations, and governmental accountability. Kaddy and Mariama reflect on the importance of memorializing their lost loved ones and the ongoing struggle for healing in the aftermath of such profound loss. This episode is a powerful call to action, urging listeners to remember, share, and advocate for justice, so that the painful legacy of enforced disappearances does not continue to haunt future generations. Thank you for tuning in, and remember to follow, share, like, and subscribe to the Victim Podcast on social media platforms.
When my dad was going, like we were all kids. Personally, I was in grade 2. My sister was in grade 3, like we were in grade 4, 5, 6, 7, and what have you Then. This is not about me, but about my mom, who kept my dad's clothes, still now ironed in the wardrobe, waiting for my dad's return.
Speaker 2:
Hello and welcome to the Victim Podcast. I am Lamin Fadera Coming up in the program. During the reign of the former president Yahya Jame, many Gambians were killed, some were tortured and others disappear without trace.
Speaker 1:
So we were there communicating and seeing him sometimes. But in 2006, we woke up one early morning then the stepfather her brother there was like Ndu went missing here. No one seen him. But when he was going he wrote a letter and placed it there that, like you all want me to go from here, and now I am going.
Speaker 2:
In this edition of the Victim Podcast, in partnership with Women's Association for Victims' Empowerment, we will discuss with victims whose families disappeared without trace and seeking for justice.
Speaker 1:
Let's call your dad. Then I dial my dad's phone number, it's like switch off. Then my feet was like boom, what's happening? I told my stepmom my dad's phone is not going on. I feel something is going on. He said you know what call him. I said this has never happened before my dad's phone. He makes sure he charges before he leaves home. So I called again. It's not going through. I called my mom. My mom said okay, I was also trying to call him but it's not going through. Then I get home I meet my mom also there trying to call him. We called him throughout the night. We could not reach him and the following day my mom and my uncle went to report at Sibano Police Station and also they referred them to Buyam to report the case of my father being missing.
Speaker 2:
One of our guests is the daughter of Ndur Cham, who was alleged of toppling the Yarmouth regime in 2006.
Speaker 1:
I remember a day like we went to school and my mom called the driver and said like don't bring the kids to the house, take them to my sister's house. By then there were a lot of armies in their big cars, the trucks, the military men came to our house. So me and my sister were like we are going to the house, we are not going there. We were strong-headed so we went to the house. We met them there. There was a lot of armies there, a lot of them. They came, they went to all the places.
Speaker 2:
Fatayo. Her father disappeared on the 2nd February 2017.
Speaker 1:
So we had rumours that he had that people were going to kidnap my dad, but he was going to confirm if that really happened. So that went on my dad. This is how my dad got missing. For six years we have been searching for him, waiting for him reporting. I personally went with my mum and uncle at the State House After a year plus we went there to ask what the IGP is doing, but then what he told us is they did not even hear about the case.
Speaker 2:
Well with this and a lot more to come. Remember this program is brought to you thanks to Victim Podcast, in partnership with WAVE. Welcome back to the Victim Podcast. In case you are listening to the podcast for the first time, welcome on board. The objective of the Victim Podcast is to raise awareness about transitional justice beyond the work of the TRRC and highlight the importance-raise awareness of the non-recurrence of human rights violations, and the Never Again campaign is achieved in the form of a podcast. You can follow the victim podcast on Twitter, facebook or, better still, on Instagram. Let's continue. As we mentioned on the headline in the beginning of the show, our guest in this platform will be Kadhi Cham, the daughter of Ndur Cham, who was killed, and Mariam Fatajo, who further disappeared without trace. In this conversation, the Victim Podcast, aisatu Jame, had a chit-chat with Kadhi Cham, the daughter of Ndur Cham, and Mariam Fatajo.
Speaker 3:
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Victim Podcast, and today we are with two beautiful ladies here, and they are both victims of enforced disappearances, and the topic for this discussion today is on enforced disappearances, and mainly they are going to talk about their experiences with regards to enforced appearances and how they affect it and how they would want to see what their expectations are regarding the recommendations made by the government. And this podcast is mainly brought to you by Women's Association for Victims Empowerment in collaboration with the Victims Podcast. Welcome on the show. Collaborations with the Victims podcast. Welcome on the show. I'll allow them to introduce themselves and tell you who they are, and we can then go into the conversation. Thank you.
Speaker 1:
Assalamu alaikum, I am Kadhi Cham, the daughter of Leith Ndur Cham, Leith Konole Ndur Cham. Hello everyone.
Speaker 3:
I am Mariyama Fatajo, daughter of Leith Siaka Fatajo, the last victim of Jamai. Thank you very much, mariam and Kadif, for coming on the Victims Podcast. I think it's important as well for us to have voices of women, especially young women, that are both directly affected but also part of the conversations on transitional justice, specifically what really happened to you guys on transitional justice, specifically what really happened to you guys, and I think these conversations really help in terms of just people understanding what happened during the 22 years of the dictatorship and the impact it has on victims and their families. And I am happy to have you both on this conversation of the Victims Podcast. So let's just go into the conversation. Anybody could just come in to speak what you think. So I'll just want you guys to tell me. Okay, I'll just want maybe Mariama to start with. Mariama, you can tell me a little bit about what happened to you, what made you an indirect victim of enforced disappearances. Then we can go into other conversations and, as well, kadhi could come in once you answer that question. Thank you.
Speaker 1:
Thank you, aisha. My father is Siaka Fatajo. He went missing in 2017, february 2017 years, february 27. So on this fateful day, I was home. My mom traveled, so it's me and my stepmom who were at home. I was not even feeling well. I can remember my dad came to say and give hand to my mom, to my stepmom, to say cook this as lunch and leave some for me. I'll be back. So, as I was lying down, my dad get into his house, pick his keys to his motorbike and went to the, went to the gate, but he came back and did that three times. I was like what is he forgetting in his house that he is going in and coming out? So he left. I was there.
Speaker 1:
Then I got my sickness get worse, so my stepmom took me to Sibano Hospital. As we were there till after Maghrib, we wanted to go home. Then we did not have car. My stepmom then said let's call your dad. Then I dialed my dad's phone number. It's like switch off. Then my feet was like what's happening? I told my stepmom my dad's phone is not going on. I feel something is going on. He said you know what? Call him. I said this has never happened before my dad's phone. He makes sure he charges before he leaves home. So I called again. It's not going through. I called my mom. My mom said, okay, I was also trying to call him, but it's not going through. Then I get home I meet my mom was to call him. We called him throughout the night. We could not reach him and the following day my mom and my uncle went to report at Sibano Police Station and also they referred them to Buyaam to report the case of my father being missing.
Speaker 1:
Yes, police did some investigation at Sibano when we reported one. He a Malian. So between Badibunka and Tilibunko we have that joking relationship. So if you see that guy in our home you know that we have something if. But for him you normally go there because he has a song. So that day he has been sending his kids to check on my dad, if my dad is there.
Speaker 1:
So at the end he was the one that came to say if family and my, my, my stepdad, my dad, my father's younger brother, told him that my dad is here to be here and he said is that safe? So that bring a flag. Like what did he hear? So we had rumors that he had that. Um, people were to kidnap my dad, but he was going to confirm if that really happened, so that went on my dad. This is how my dad got missing. For six years we have been searching for him, waiting for him reporting. I personally went with my mom and my uncle at the state house. After a year plus we went there to ask what the IGP is doing. But then what he told us it is they do not even hear about the case. So, um, my uncle.
Speaker 1:
Yes, we did we did a statement at the police.
Speaker 1:
So the police from the State House. My uncle did a newspaper report. I think it's standard, yes. So from there we've been sitting waiting on the government to do something. They did not until last year. Mulligan did the and they came out with a report that I was the first person that read the report from the family.
Speaker 1:
I was at work when Mariam called me to say it wouldn't be good if you don't read this book before coming to the luncheon tomorrow. I did not want to do this. Nobody knows I'm going to do this, but I'm just going to do this because he sees the journalist that went to investigate this. I left work and went and picked the book. As I was in the car I was like, let me start reading this book. But my mom was like no, you have to wait and see until you get to work.
Speaker 1:
So when I went to work, I returned to work, I started reading the book. I could not finish reading this book. I could not believe what I was seeing like I don't know how all these things happen and how brave Maria was to go and find out all these things that the police can't for six good years. I was like, okay, then this is not about me. What about my mom, who kept my dad's clothes still now ironed in the wardrobe waiting for my dad's return? I said how do I tell this to my mom? I just hope she don't read this book now because she can't read. I for one, I cannot tell my mom this is what is going on. I called my uncle. I said okay, I have the book with me. I think I can bring the book. I went, I took a taxi, went to Sanchaba and gave the book to my uncle.
Speaker 1:
My uncle read it. I sat down with him. He said I believe it since the day he had the audio of by to lie saying um, one photo at butterwood controller was the one reporting um rebels to the economic soldiers, telling them that we have rebels in phony. But he will never repeat that again because he like something like that. I could I don't. I have never had the audio before, but my uncle had it. He never said it to us before, even not my mom. So he kept the audio and I was like, okay, so my uncle know this is what is happening. But he could not tell anyone. We kept saying such in and I said so what do we do? We can tell this to mom now. She said well, we don't have any choice. It's either we tell her or allow her to read the book.
Speaker 1:
We went to the lunch in the following morning. My uncle and I and my mom, mariam, could not speak as she tried to explain how she could, just could not, because she could not believe how my mom could still sit at somewhere where her husband is killed and still waiting for the husband. I have the book. So I was waiting for my mom to have the copy of the book the moment the luncheon was over. I just had to rush home and let my mom. She went to her sister's place the following uh at that night I called mom, are you okay? She said yes, she is fine. My mom is a strong woman. I believe because Because for myself I wasn't really strong my husband was trying to console me, sorry, you need to be strong for your siblings, you need to be that. Your mom right now needs you and all that.
Speaker 1:
But it was hard reading that book, reading what happened to my dad, I was like I was very close to my dad. I was very, I was very close to my dad. I was very, very, very close to my dad, my dad and I. When my mom if my mom wanted to play with me and I said no, my dad would say Abula because they are cousins. So my dad stayed with my mom's family before. So before my mom used to, my aunt used to say huh, you could not believe that your mom married your dad, because before these two they don't get along. The moment we sit for lunch and your mom first sits down, your dad will not sit beside your mom Because he says so. When my dad will tell me Don't plate her hair. You are also like this before. My mom will get angry and say, if you want, go and barb your hair, I will not do anything. So that bond between me and my dad.
Speaker 1:
And reading that report, I was like this is something, to be honest, it's like a story to me, but then I can't do anything. All I can do is wait for the government. I have been following Ministry of Justice. I spoke to Safi Nyang, I spoke to Tha and even yesterday I spoke to the MOJ representative at the memorialization thing that we've had at the African Center for Legal Research at Bakao, ma'am Dagan thing. I told her the same thing and the two letters that the NHRC has also wrote to the IGP that they did not respond to the two letters. I have those copies. I've been following government.
Speaker 1:
It's like they are not willing. It's what I'm saying. They are not willing to do anything. If your citizen is missing for seven years or six years, you can. Trc is from 1994 to January 2017. And my father's case happened in February 2017. So meaning the mandate of TRC did not cover my father. So it's the government's task to do it and NHRC have done their best, writing two letters to IGP and they refuse to acknowledge the receipt or wrote back to say this is what is going on. They don't.
Speaker 3:
So I'm sorry that this happened to your family and no one would ever want your father to be killed or missing this way, because it's a father plays a key role in a family, especially the upbringing of the children and also ensuring that the needs of children are met, and I know how it feels and it's very difficult to lose a father at a very young age. I know you have siblings as well who might not be able to have that relationship with their dad. Be able to have that relationship with their dad. And with regards to, I think you've answered the question that has to do with what is government doing and I think one of the things that maybe I'm not talking on behalf of the government, but I know they've set up a missing person tax force that will be looking into issues of enforced disappearances and AVLO has a representative in the tax force, which they would have the inaugural meeting on the 6th of May to basically look into issues of enforced disappearances that occurred from 2016 until as we speak, because, like you've mentioned, your father's case was in February and I'm sure the missing person tax force would be looking into all issues of enforced appearances and I'm sure, if they start doing their work. I think they would be a good body that you could reach out to and see how best they would take up the issue of your father.
Speaker 3:
But yeah, coming back to Kadhi, I think you could also give us a brief. For the listeners that are listening, you could give us a brief story. I know it's usually very difficult to have to talk about what really happened to you, because sometimes it can affect you. You can have flashbacks, but it's okay if you want to share. But if it's, if it's also okay. You, you want to share. We are here to listen to your story thank you.
Speaker 1:
I think I would like to share like some part of the story. Yeah, when my dad was uh, going, like we were all kids personally, I was in grade two, my sister was in grade three, like we're in grade four, five, six, seven and all that so like I remember a day like we went to school and my mom called the driver and said, like don't bring the kids to the house, take them to my sister's house. By then, like there are a lot, a lot, a lot of armies, like in their big cars, the trucks, yeah, the military men came to our house. So me and my sister was like no, we are going to the house, we are not going there, like we are strong-headed. So we went to the house, we meet them there. There's a lot of armies there, a lot of them. They came, they went through the places, they even used the main gate, they used the windows, they broke the windows and went in the house. Wow, yeah. So like they were doing a lot there. We were even scared and they came like full armed with their guns and all that. They said they are looking for our father. So by then we all know there's something going on, there's something going wrong, but they didn't explain nothing to us. They will said we are looking for new charm. So they went, they broke into his window, go to it, to go to his house, and was session breaking things and all that there.
Speaker 1:
So the second day or the third day of the coup d'etat, we were sleeping. We wake up not seeing our mom. I'm also when missing. 2006, yeah, our mom also went missing. Which year 2006. Yeah, our mom also went missing.
Speaker 1:
So when we wake up, like we were like we don't see our mom. So my mom's sister was there and my father's family, most of them came there to be there with us. So they said that like at the midnight the army came there with a big car and a lot of them were there like armed and wearing their black, black masks and all that took my mom and went with her. But no one knew like where was she, where they took her. So my sisters and all, all of them were searching places. They said I was not there. But they said anywhere they, any place they go, they were like she's not here, she's not here, she's not here, she's not here. There's such all the police stations and all that. She's not here like they were trying to find him from one place Sorry for one place to another, one place to another. They end up taking her to the serious crime at Banjon. Till now, when I'm passing on the serious crime like my face is torn like this. I don't want to look at the place. So my mom was took there like they even asked the family. Even when they to ask where is our Davao, they were like no could be. But unfortunately they said one policeman was there watching for him to come out. So the policeman told him don't move away from here. She's here. They're planning to do something. She's here, she's inside here. So you guys just have to be stronger and stick around here and wait.
Speaker 1:
She's here, she's at the office and she was pregnant for like seven months. She had a seven months pregnancy, okay. So she spent most of the time there. When he was, she was about to deliver. That's the time she let her go and she was sleeping down. We took a mattress and the blanket and the mosquito prevention and all that for her there. So whenever we go there, they were like one can go in. No one realized that she was there already. They can do nothing. Already we have seen, seen her there. So they were like one, just one, can go in or two can go in. So we were like that, there Anytime we were from the school we would go there to check up on her.
Speaker 1:
But she was not okay. She was getting sick, going to the hospital and coming with a pregnancy and all that. So my father also went at that time. But my mom said that they were always threatening her, asking about where is Ndusham, if he didn't come, we will kill you, and all that, threatening her and torturing her there. So, like my father also went at that time, he went to maybe Dakar or Farafanya, things like that, because he was caught in Farafanya in 2006. He was there going in and out, going in and out because he had a family there also the mom is there and the mom was very sick. So we were there communicating and seeing him sometimes.
Speaker 1:
But in 2006, we woke up one early morning then the stepfather, her brother, there was like the dude went missing here. No one seen him. But when he was going he wrote a letter and place it there that, like you all want me to go from here. Now I am going. Maybe he knows that they are coming. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, so we later had the rumors that like there was this man, jensen, who was so close to him, who he took to school, do everything to her, put him in the army and take him to Darfur and all that. It's the one who reported him to the army, because they made a lot of attempts to bring him back, but all the attempts failed. There was a time that they went to Dakaka to catch him there and bring him back. They even went with the injections, like to inject him to faint or whatever, I don't understand, and they had a fight there. He escaped from them and they came back. They came back. So on that day my stepfather called and said I don't see him. He went missing here from all these days. So we also spoke that maybe they, like, they've succeeded now. So there was a time we had the rumors that like he's in Tangier in the NIA, I don't know, tony, over food, yeah, yeah, like I was saying, I said I know the NIA had, during the tiara see testimonies.
Speaker 3:
Some of the alleged perpetrators that came to testify had mentioned that when they arrest someone, sometimes they take you to one location and then later remove you from there, just for people not to get a trace of where you are. And I think, like you've mentioned, that would happen in the case of your father.
Speaker 1:
Like there was a a time, even the day, they killed my father. We knew. How did he know? Like that's this rumors? Yeah, okay, there was, like it's at night, in the evening, in the morning it was only 13, 13, much I don't know things like that. Yeah, we know the date through the rumors, but like it was not exact. Like is this? Yeah, but there were a lot of rumors, there were a lot of rumors, but the date was even there. The date that Oya said at the TRC was the exact date we had.
Speaker 1:
So when we were hiding the rumors, like still now we don't see him, we don't know his whereabouts but there was a day at the trc we are testified and how he explained the story exactly how like we had the rumors because, like you know, he's a soldier too and all those even went to uh, get him was like his younger, senior genius. So like I mean, maybe most of them were outside talking about it. Yeah, so we had in a charity or testified and said everything. We were there at the day, so he said how he was killed and all that we heard from there. But it was very hard since the day, not even the TRC tell the chance, just make it clear to us that, like he's dead.
Speaker 1:
But since the day he left that place at her mom's place there, it was very hard Because most of the time we used to talk with her on the phone and all that, but there was no communication or anything from that day. So it was very hard on us. We were having mixed feelings and thinking like is it true or is it not true? And no one was like, having the courage to talk. You want to go thinking like is it true or is it not true? And no one was like have the courage to talk. You will not go to the police station and make a report or whatever. No, you can do nothing about it, you just sit like that.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, but it just make it clear to us, but it was very, very, very hard. How have life been after your dad went missing? I know you were young and then you remembered the memories that you had with your father at a time and knowing that a father is key in a family and how he contributes to the development and upbringing of the child and not just the upbringing and development of the child, but the relationship that fathers do have with their daughters. I know it's an amazing experience and you sitting here talking about the disappearances of your father. I know it's hard, it's difficult, but really you all are brave and I must say, because losing a father at that age it's hard. So how has life been after the disappearance of your father, with your education, with your mom and your siblings?
Speaker 1:
Okay, like I said, that was not hard. It was hell. It was very difficult for us. My father was someone. He loves his family most especially his daughters and sons. He could do everything that we need. We were living a good life, going to good schools Like I was in those. It's a private school. I was having everything I need, not looking for a book or a pencil or whatever textbook. I have everything I needed. So we were all together, living in one house as a family. But when my father moved, like when my father disappeared, we separated. Yeah, I was there, my sister was there, my brother was there in different hands.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, we are all given to different people we are all like, we all quit the schools we were into. I went from those to Albion in Banjoon. Yeah, it was very difficult and you know like when your parents are not here and you are in someone else's hand, it's very difficult. Yeah, we have like it's what's the hell, like anything like you can say about pain, like we faced it in our early age. It was very, very hard, but thank God, and my mom too is someone like. My mom is very, very brave, like she's not even a woman, she's a man. Yeah, when my father left, my mom did everything, everything she can for us, everything. She went from here to Germany just for us. And he was threatened too, like her life was in danger to an older, so she left. I know like when he had all she she had and all she can, she'll live with all of us, yeah, but unfortunately that cannot be possible. So he left from there like we're in the hands of her, his family, her family.
Speaker 1:
Sorry, first thing, first, most difficulties going to school, coming, sometimes not even lunch, with punishments, and all that because we're in our parents' house. It's different. You'll hear a lot of insults, a lot of words saying bad things about even your parents themselves, they'll say bad things about your mother or your father. You understand. So that's it. It was very hard and, moreover, your family itself will put the trauma in you more than even what happened. Like what happened had happened.
Speaker 1:
You could take it in good faith and whatever, but when people around you taking it good, in good faith to and accompany you in your journey, like as a kid, it will be easier. But then none of them did that, none of them. It was very hard. Instead, they took us like, maybe, slaves, and you know, when you're taking someone as live and the person is not ready for enslavement, it's very hard. That's that. That's a fight, and we were like that. We don't take such, even though we are poor, we don't have food or whatever, but we are still straight. But it was very, very, very hard thank you very much, kadhi.
Speaker 3:
That is, will I say, it's hard. Hard would be hard might not even quantify the pain that victims of enforced disappearances go through, because, at the end of the day, in as much as you don't even know the whereabouts of your loved one that went missing, sometimes it's really difficult just thinking about what happened, what pain they go through, even before meeting their death. You know it's really difficult. Hearing from the jungler's testimony, I think a lot of people were wowed about what happened to those people before they finally been killed. They were tortured, they did all sorts of things to them and I think these are stories that people need to hear, because most of the time we hear people saying that you know, things that happened in Gambia were not true. They are fabricated stories and I think the TRRC, through the jungler's testimony, had really showed Gambians that what happened in Gambia during the 22 years rule dictatorship and I must say that all the families of enforced appearances are brave and they're still enduring all those pain and for the fact that they have, they've not even seen the remains of their loved ones up till today it's it's also it's also very um, traumatizing as well and, and I think, um, you guys, like I said, you guys are brave and I am really happy that you are here today, mariyama and Kadhi, to speak on what you guys went through, what your family has been through, and you continue to advocate for justice and accountability for victims, because it's not just what happened to you as victims, but it's about us attaining never again in the Gambia, and I think that needs to stand out.
Speaker 3:
If these stories are not told, if people don't get to hear these stories, how would we even realize that these things happen in Gambia? And I think the more the stories are out there, the more the government would be able to implement some of the recommendations that are made by the government about on the trs's report and also ensuring never again. People would also know that these violations do occur in gambia and it happened to gambians and it was done by gambians to their fellow gambian people. Let's just go back. Let me just go back to the two of you again, um, just to maybe have. Let's say what you would be expecting from government with regards to recommendations made on on enforcers, appearances and what are you hoping to see in terms of and the perpetrators that committed these crimes? Yeah, thank you, and any of you could start for us.
Speaker 1:
Like one thing for sure I always said it's very painful and the pain will never heal because the government is not doing something to heal the pain, and any of you could start for us, like, one thing for sure I always said it's very painful and the pain will never heal because the government is not doing something to heal the pain. You understand, and most of the time I have friends that their parents passed away, like when it's a Friday or Ramadan or any time. They will say let me go to my father's grave and pray, or let me go take some charity and all that, or let me go and clean my father's grave and pray, or let me go take some charity and all that, or let me go and clean my father's grave for me and my family. We don't have that. We don't even know where exactly, maybe even if they do not, uh, bring out the remnants, but let us know it's here. Here's the, like, the, the. He's someone in this country, he's a big one in this country, so like he deserves a memorial. Like this is a grave of Ndur Cham. That's very important. Yeah, we are seeking for that from the government and, like, about the reparation and what government should do. It's a lot, I know it's a lot for them to do, but they don't even take one step Because the perpetrators are still here. We are still going the same place with the puppeteers perpetrators still entering the same cast with them, most of them seen each other.
Speaker 1:
You understand so like the trauma is not healing. For example, I meet oh yeah, the person who testified he killed my father. How will I feel? Like not even my do, the whole month. It's spoiled. For me it's not even a day it's for, but the whole month it's spoiled. For me it's not even a day, it's spoiled, but the whole month. And he already testified that he did that. But you are not doing nothing as a government and you can do it. I cannot take water to the prison or whatever, but they can do it. Let them help us.
Speaker 3:
That is accountability, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Let them help us. They have already testified, said that we did this, they took their responsibilities, that we did it. We did it. So the government also do something for justice, like we deserve justice and justice should be done. And if the just is taking so long, now it have been years since the chassis have been like the mandate have been end, but still now there's nothing. They did nothing. Still now, not even arresting even one single perpetrator to show example that we are doing something, but like it's nothing. So that's why the government, adult victims are giving up, not even hoping they have something, even the reparation, the tax force. They bill most of people, most people are saying like it will not go through. Yeah, because they have not given good examples. They're even listening to us or even talk about the victims in their National Assembly or the president. If they even talk about victims and when you are talking about victims, like 99% of gambians are victims here. So I hope, like if they cannot do for the 99, but let them take examples first from perpetrators who are still alive and who are still with us. They're with their children. My father is normal, so it's very hard. Let them do something about it. Thank, thank you, aisha, for the question. I think government has a lot to do. I know it's hard. It's a lot of recommendations and it's not just the TRRC they have to work on. They have a lot of things to do. They have a lot of responsibility to do. But again, to tell the government to speed up the process. Victims are dying. Victims are dying each passing day, which means victims are not strong anymore due to the concussion they take. Victims of enforced disappearance are dying out of trauma.
Speaker 1:
Can you imagine meeting with Oya like, like Kadhi said what she is going to feel? Myself, I stopped going to Fonyi because I don't want to meet with the perpetrators that do that to my father, because I know my temper and I will do something stupid and I don't want to take the law into my hands. And if government continue to to longer time, victims are going to put laws into their hands. People like me. We get to understand this is the law. Let me avoid it, but so many people out there don't know what the law is. So if I happen to meet with somebody that just sits at the national TV to say I did this to your father, I did that to your father and in fact, you are having a good life than me. What did you expect me to do? I must react. It's either going to be positive or negative, and obviously it's going to be negative. I will not just sit and say, hey, how are you, I will do something stupid.
Speaker 1:
So definitely, government has something to do. They have a huge responsibility to take. It's not easy on them, we understand, but they just need to take a step. Like I always said, trrc is not a court of law, it's a truth commission that they came to set. But now processes are going on. At least the special prosecution mechanism has passed. We hope it will just start now. Let it start, because the reparation bill has passed, since we have not heard anything about it. So it's not easy on government, we understand, but let them prioritize victims. The reparations need to come out now For my family, as I always say, we need to know the report from Malagan.
Speaker 1:
It's not enough. We need to hear from the government. We need to hear from the government. Okay, this is what we investigate about your family and this and this and this. We still have the perpetrators in phone. I stopped going there. My mom is there, but I stopped going there because I know I would do something stupid, I stopped going there. So we need to hear from the government, we need to know the steps. We are going to take it again Myself. If not for my uncle right now, without we would have been in a whole escort now, but my uncle is a less take time later. If not we right now, our case would have been in a class call.
Speaker 1:
But I can't go alone. I have to be with family members to say let's do this. So definitely, let in as much as you have a lot on your table. Also prioritize. Prioritize the victims. As I always say, prioritize victims. We have seen they have allocated $40 million to media houses. My friend, if you give that to victims right now, so many people would have benefited. Victims are going through a lot. Victims are going through a lot. Some people they cannot even afford to pay their rents. Their children are not going to school. They drop out because of what happened to their parents. People like me. I left school at 12 and I have to leave my siblings to also have that access to go to school. So definitely reparations is needed. It is.
Speaker 3:
Thank you very much, mariama. Reparations is needed. I think reparations is key as part of the process that is happening in terms of ensuring that victims get redress and also ensuring that justice is served. Accountability mechanism has started and I think last week the SPO bill was passed in Parliament, which is a good thing. But, like you said, passing the bills is one thing, but also ensuring implementation happens is another thing. But, like you said, passing the bills is one thing, but also ensuring implementation happens is another thing.
Speaker 3:
And you guys can't say it any better because you know how it feels. You went through it with your families and, like Kadhi said, it's difficult and I think the trauma would never heal. She said and I think this is one thing that a lot of victims are going through, and especially you guys, like I've said earlier, you are strong with your families because, like this is not a battle of the weak. If you're weak, you can't go through this. You will lose it at the end of the day. Going through the trauma of thinking about when am I going to see the remains of my father, thinking about how am I going to survive, thinking about the painful memories that you've encountered growing up as kids, because when all these things happening, all of you guys were young and and women are really brave you and most of the time when these violations happen, it affects women more, because women are the wives. You know. The daughters as well are there, especially a daughter who has a relationship, a father-daughter relationship, which is very powerful. You know, having not seen your father for the longest time, thinking about the memories you had with your father, seen your father for the longest time, thinking about the memories you had with your father.
Speaker 3:
But I would say again, thank you, thank you again for coming to the Victim Podcast, and I think it's important again to have these conversations, for people really to hear these stories, and I think it can really make an impact. And most of the time when we say never again, a lot of people tend to say it's just for victims. But no, this is a process that should be everybody's business and everyone can be affected. Either you know, in one way or the other, your friend, your neighbor, your sister, or you know your family friend had been a victim of the former regime. And thank you again for coming on the Victims Podcast and I think we would wrap it up here and thank you again, mariama Fatajo and Khadija, for coming on the Victims Podcast, until we come your way again on another episode with another guest to discuss issues on transitional justice and issues generally affecting victims, and also how government should prioritize implementing recommendations of the GRC's report. Thank you again, and I'm your host, aisatou Jame.
Speaker 2:
Well, that's all about it for today's podcast. Many thanks to Aisatou Jame, the creator of the Victim Podcast, for coming through the podcast to discuss with us their challenges after their parent disappeared without trace and, of course, until we come on your way. You can follow the Victim Podcast on Twitter, instagram. On Facebook, you can also download the Victim Podcast. Don't forget to share, like and, of course, subscribe to. On Facebook, you can also download the Victim Podcast. Don't forget to share, like and, of course, subscribe to our page. Thank you.
